Game Designer Actual Yearly Wage

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Sorry for a very general cheesy question, because I kind of need to know the truth because I by accidentally post a shameful comment to the news public about the game developer entry level wages that might be way off. I have struggles and been a shamed that I try to ignore with for two months and I could still not resist from it.
My shameful comment post link here --> https://brocku.ca/brock-news/2016/03/new-video-game-program-a-huge-draw-for-students/
I think I by accidentally answered at least $32000 or at least $18/hrs a way too less wage estimation.
I tried researching the actual answer but I am kind of confuse is the answer more like...
-- Some of the online people answered $30000 to $35000, but most of my developer friends said that is way too less
-- $40000, but some online people said is too close to be a middle level developer $50000 wages

Please help me answered this in around CDN or US dollars. How much does a game developer entry level really makes?

Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
GameDev's are undervalued quite a bit these days. 30-35 is probably accurate. Not really sure why... maybe everyone wants to be a game developer... (not even sure about why that is these days! heh)
General Devs will be 40+
No wonder I was so confuse about the wages, because my friend is not a game developer they are software engineer who makes computer and phone apps. My friend makes me think like 30 to 35k was like nothing at all.
30-35 k is nothing at all. One can make the same wages working fast food. As a rule entry level game dev pays less then many other professions.
It's dependent on where you live. Working fast food in the United States will not make you anywhere near $30,000. About the highest you'll likely see is between $20,000 and $24,000 if you're management. Otherwise expect in the teens.
Note to self: One more reason to stay out of the states. That said, exchange rates and taxes do need to be considered. There are more then just wages that go into the equation.
To the OP: Its worth considering other professions for comparison. A game developer draws from the same basic candidate pool as database programmers and chemical engineers.
In Australia it seems that even a more senior game developer is generally still only looking at about $70K. In contrast, you can easily get a pretty breezy engineering position, which requires about a tenth of the brain power, and be paid around $90K.
I do tend to find that this is the publicly advertised jobs - i.e. smaller studios, the majority of which are either doing mobile or gambling games. I think the bigger studios tend to fill positions without going out to the mass market - i.e. advertising on their own sites only, or not advertising at all and using word of mouth, friends of friends, etc. I'd be pretty certain those companies are probably paying quite a bit more for a higher class of developer, but the jobs are also exponentially more difficult to get.
just a note, the baseline for being consider at ' poverty level' in the US is ~28K$,
(family of 5)
just saying...

here: http://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-poverty/historical-poverty-thresholds.html
Here a fast food worker generally makes around $14k per year (in reality as in the people actually doing it not some statistics of what is possible). Rarely do they put you on as full-time. Usually hours are about 32 per week or so. Sometimes you get more but they almost always stop you at 39 hours per week. Reason being working 40 hours per week is full-time.
Ah I see @Ryiah beat me to it.
What is a "game dev"? There are many roles in many levels/types of companies. An entry level artist is going be different from an engineer, an AP, QA, etc.

Ony and Kiwasi like this.
That's a good point too. My local McDonald's goes out of its way to keep you from working enough hours to get benefits.
In most of the smaller studio ads, it's just "Game Developer", "Senior Game Developer". Generally what they mean is "Programmer, who's able to do a bit of everything else, and also contribute to game design, but not so much that you tread on the toes of the actual Game Designer"
Side note - and I don't know if this is just a local thing or global - a lot of these studios, especially the smaller ones, have clauses in their contracts that prevent you from developing games outside of work. So you really have to make a decision of making your own games (and supporting yourself with a fulltime non-game-dev job), OR making someone else's games.
Standard with large studios as well. Generally it is a "non-compete" clause, so depending on the studio/product, there may be room. Like if you are working at Rockstar, you may be able to create casual mobile games on the side, that sort of thing. It also may be negotiated at hire. Myself and a couple of other folks, had games they were working on personally, that we had excluded from the non-compete on hire. So I cannot work on anything that competes with our products (which given our size... is everything), with the exception of two personal games that are spelled out in my agreement. But that will vary depending on company and what you can negotiate.
There may also be applicable NDA and non-compete terms after leaving the company... however, if some of the those restrictions are found to be too pervasive, they may not hold up in court.
Yep, good point - it's something that people should be aware of when reading their contracts, and something to possibly negotiate with the business before signing anything. If they're not at all flexible on it, it could be a sign that they're going to be pretty strict on enforcing those clauses.
NDA/Confidentiality can (and has) been held up. Pre-Disney, we lost several employees due to some lawsuits of confidentiality violations by folks we hired from another company (who was known for being litigious). One actually resulted in jail time. Non-compete (post employment), is a weird one. I know that it does appear in contracts, but I haven't heard of anyone being gone after for it. I mean, most people who do this professionally tend to do the same things for the same type of games. If got a different job, it would almost definitely be a competing product, it's just what I do.
I'm no lawyer, but...
NDA breach is a big 'no no'... especially 'while' employed, and can be carried over to include after employment.

But I do know that restrictive covenants can be reversed if it impedes your ability to make a living. Like for example, if you had your own company before joining them, and the restrictive covenant prevented you from starting a competing business is the same field (like game development) or geographic location for the next 5 years.. that could be a problem.

However, a restriction of doing so for a period of say 1 or 2 years may be applicable and upheld.

like i said, i''m no lawyer but it definitely 'pays' to read the papers before signing lolz.
A lot of contract law varies with jurisdiction too. One of my previous employers was a large American firm. They used their standard non compete clause in my contract.
When I left the company I went to local HR to clarify the requirements. They NZ HR manager tool one look at the clause and told me it was actually illegal as written in NZ. She promptly gave me a letter releasing me from the non compete requirements.

I can't confirm it, as I left the company. But I got the impression that incident was going to spark a company wide review of standard contracts. The fines for illegal contracts can be significant if it goes to court here.
Was that deliberate? According to your link noone gets paid.
Glass door is normally not to bad, but their info on game related jobs seems a little sparse.
it very much depends on your region, i have had offers on other states and provinces, all for a very large range of salaries between them based on the location, and the cost of living at that location. It still pays less than getting a other engineering job.

Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
That may well be the case. Either way I'm off to play Crossy Road.
That would make sense. Usually NDA/Confidentiality covers pretty specific topics. We have multiple tiers here. But none that cover anything that would be of practical value anywhere else. I think if they were too blanket they could be challenged. It's also probably the case that you can be asked to sign anything really. Whether or not it holds up is a different ball of wax. I have had friends who were asked to sign non-compete contracts during their exit interviews at other companies. Which, honestly, even if I left a company on the best of terms, I don't think I would be willing to sign any contracts on exit.
I wish to be a startup someday when I am ready.
For the non-compete contract, is it okay if I made a totally different type of game during my contract (kind of non-competing same customers)? Is it a must to use my fundrasied kickstarter money, instead of money from other studios that you have worked with?

I think I should get a contract and work to get experience first, then wait for non-compete contract to expire out to start my new business.

Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
New contracts on exit? That's a bit rude. I've been asked to sign 'notices of continuing obligation' on exiting. But that is normally just a reminder that you are still under the same NDA provisions regarding company IP that you were under when you were working with the company.
For non compete clauses local law is very specific on what is allowed.
- Must be a clear business case for the non compete, specific to the employee role
- Must not be an attempt to penalise an employee for leaving
- Must be limited to a specific geography and time period. Both of these must be as narrow as possible to meet the business case
- The employee must be adequately compensated for the non compete clause. This means that you can't add a non compete clause to an existing employees contract without giving them a pay rise at the same time.
I have heard of cases where the non competes have been successfully enforced in court. Mostly its when an employee leaves there employer and starts up a competing business straight away, using the client list and contacts from the previous employer. So for sales or community staff non competes are a real thing. But its much harder to enforce a non compete on an artist or programmer.
I mean, what are the gonna do if you don't sign, stop paying you? They're already kinda doing that anyway...
In their case at least it seems like its been settled. Cost them maybe half of the revenue they've earned so far ($40 million settlement) but at least now they are free and should have plenty of money left for funding.
Things like this are crazy really. I can understand it in a case where there is truly direct competition but some of the companies out there seem to want to literally "own" you. I heard of a case like that once several years back here in MO but the requirement to wait a year after he left the company to work for another company in the same field was thrown out of court. IIRC, the judge ruled it was illegal because it is a form of indentured servitude as well as harming the ability of the person to earn a living and the company had no right to force people to sign such a contract to gain employment to begin with.

I suppose each case is different though.
Another thing to consider. I recently had a client who had an entry level position at a local indie game studio. He was only getting paid when he was actually coding for the game and not when he was doing research for the project. So his billable hours did not end up being that high.
The parent company of the company that I work with recently tried getting me to sign a draconian intellectual property agreement where everything that I came up with whether I thought about it during working hours or my spare time was their property. Not only that but if they needed me to help defend the IP after I had left my position, I would have to do so without further compensation. It probably would not be enforceable because any restrictions added after employment have to be accompanied by some sort of consideration. Signing it probably would have also messed up my status as an independent contractor.
That sounds horrible. Most days I spend more time researching then actually coding. You don't hire programmers for their ability to type things into the computer, you hire them for their problem solving ability. Which includes a lot of time researching.
Actually speaking of not getting paid, at our last local IDGA meet up we had a lawyer speak and remind everybody that unpaid internships are illegal in Australia.
Oh god, we have unpaid interns all over here in the US. Cannot speak for other countries, but here in the US a 3D artist, animator, 2D artist, UI artist coming in entry level to a studio might make anywhere from $32k to $44k annual salary. Engineers always seem to make anywhere from $13k to $20k more annual than the rest of us. These numbers all change of course once you hit mid level experience (2 or 3+ yrs or so) and you start getting into good salaries once you hit senior (5 or 6+ yrs or so).
wow, trying to sign non-compete contracts during their exit interviews... I mean really. most ppl already have their next job sorted before leaving.
yeah nah. and you can shove your exit interview as well!
Some of these places out there... geesh. I think what annoys me most about such things is they could try you know being an excellent company. One that actually provided a fantastic work environment and encouraged you to explore your other ambitions. I mean I can understand it if it was a case of a person actually taking source code and so forth from the company and then using it to start their own business in direct competition. Even just taking the stuff at all.
But this is just life. The way it is. When I work for my current company they are certainly benefiting from all of the years of experience I gained at my last company. And that one benefited from the years of me having my own IT business and so forth. From this perspective it just makes no sense at all. Especially when it is likely all of those years of other experience gained on another company's dime or our own personal ventures that made them interested in me (you whoever) in the first place.

Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
Yeah, but remember there is a lot of scum out there that would happily take a copy of everything you own and sell it on as their own.
Not too far removed from being an asset flipper
I find this so annoying, because the guy actually accepted these kind of BS work conditions
I think this is just an unfortunate side effect of the fact that the people who really love this business are passionate enough to want to do it for almost no money, and end up doing exactly that, when really, they have unique skills and deserve to get paid way better for working insane amounts of hours doing truely difficult work. Not to mention there are a lot of us, so someone who expects to be paid reasonable wages can just be pushed aside for whatever sucker is willing to work for slave wages and that just pushes down the wages and work conditions for everyone.

My programming professor told us that if you were making less than $50 an hour at a good programming job, you were getting screwed. Either he was exaggerating, or game developers are getting screwed.
I had one professor like that. He quoted an article with a charge out rate for engineers as $200 an hour. That got many of us excited. What he neglected to mention is that charge out rates can be 5-6 times the actual pay rate.
In Poland average real net salary is around 500 euro. When you make 6k euro per year then you are doing decently. In Poland you gotta be rich to buy new VW Golf. -_-
Yeah, I can see that. It's one of the things that makes me shy away from seriously getting into game development. It would be a huge pay cut for me to go work in the game industry. So all I do is tinker at home.
Nobody is obligated to sign even a reminder on exit, unless the entry clause demanded it.
The average game programmer is definitely getting screwed, when compared to other tech professions. On average, game development coders get paid considerably less than other tech industries. They also work much worse hours. Employment in the game industry in general is kind of terrible. Almost any position you get in games is going to pay less and demand longer hours. You can't go into this profession expecting to make big bucks or have a decent work/life balance.
It's also worth noting that location factors in heavily to what kind of average salary you can expect. If you live in California, and are getting paid less than 50k, you'll barely be able to survive. The same salary in North Carolina will allow you to live quite comfortably. Cost of living varies fairly dramatically, and employers often take this into account. If you are working for a game company in Austin, Texas, you can't expect to make the same kind of salary that you would for a game company in Seattle, Washington.

I can't speak for the European game development scene. But with the variety of countries across the pond, I imagine you see a similar spread of different cost of living.
There was a significant redundancy payment in it for me. I was willing to sign anything.
Wow, bribery

Kiwasi, Ryiah and QFSW like this.
Supply and demand applies to employment, just as much as it applies to products. While it's a bit of a bummer given the profession we are in but exciting things like musician, actor, game developer/artist, etc. certainly make more people want to do that profession (increasing the supply of potential employees) so given the same demand, prices (wages) will fall. Compare that with supposedly more boring professions in similar fields (lets say still programmer but for insurance or banking) which will have less supply due to human nature and it's quite reasonable that they will normally get paid a lot more.
Maybe most games is having too hard time making enough money to survive to pay for their own people. I think most successful indie games makes 11k to 50k only, meanwhile failed game makes like $500 only. I find this out from most of the kickstarter games. I think 11k to 50k company can maybe be too hard to hire a yearly contract already. Not so sure how does indie works, but I think you need to earn 250k per year at least to hire at least a few buddy.

Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
I prefer to call or compensation.
This is the reason why I had to quit developing my game.
Once I said I wouldn't sign anything like that, then everything I developed I had to give away to them anyway after I left that company. If I'd accept that contract renewing, I'd make a game and put on Steam for them and update forever for their benefit. (because I was making the game at home when away from work)
I just gave them IP and left.
That's just wrong. At some point hopefully it just becomes a completely unacceptable practice. Makes no sense. In any other profession that I am aware of they don't have this kind of thing. If a person works all day doing carpentry for a company that doesn't mean he can't build furniture or bird houses or whatever on the weekends and sell them. An auto mechanic working at a shop not only often works on vehicles for family & friends but often the shop owner actually lets him bring these vehicles into the shop and use their equipment.
Not sure why in IT they have this mentality they literally own your brain or something. All creativity, all software development regardless of where or when you do it belongs to them. It's insane.

This actually sounds like a great way for these companies to get tons of extra hours of work for absolutely no pay. On that alone it is unethical. Highly suspect.

When I leave my job in the afternoon that is my time. If I want to spend it developing software of any kind that has absolutely nothing to do with my company at all. My workday has ended. Now if they want to start paying me 24/7 365 days per year then yes I'd certainly consider that every idea I get I will document and give to them. And every bit of random code or game I write they can have as well. But until they are actually paying me 24 / 7 it is completely unreasonable.

Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
Ugh. I wish others wouldn't refer to/link to Mundane Matt. The guy is like Keemstar. His 'job' is to cause drama, stir up S*** storms, and literally destroy careers.
Those two (keemstar and mundane matt) literally make a fortune from destroying others careers. I don't know how anyone can do that. Have they no conscience/shame/ethics? The answer: nope.

Mundane Matt had the gist of the story but inserted some bullshit in there like a typical troll. ComputerTech you could have just linked to an article, because this hasn't been 'minor' news in the gaming universe.

Edit: someone's english cannot be that bad can it??